[Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
21 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Tom Hendrikx
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256


Hello DSPAM community,

After a few years of being active in the DSPAM community, I've decided
to leave the project. Unlike others who silently stopped responding to
mails and other inquiries, I'm documenting my reasons in the hopes
that it might be of help/interest to others.

When I actively joined the DSPAM project, it was in need of some new
blood that helped out on development and other tasks, after most of
the original participants of the community takeover from Sensory
Networks somehow silently abandoned the project for reasons unknown
(to me).

After being active for a few years, I think I've seen most of the
problems in the DSPAM project, and tried to address a few without
result. The main issues I learned are listed below.

1. No active development
- ------------------------
There is no one working on the DSPAM code. There are numerous bug
reports and feature requests that could be addressed, and some parts
in DSPAM have been ripe for refactoring or rewriting for a long time,
but nobody is putting any effort into it. There is currently only one
developer 'active' within the project, but you rarely see activity
from this person.
The most code changes in the last 2(?) years are from patches
contributed through debian bugreports (thank you, debian maintainer).
The fact that no one within the project is actively working on the
code, creates a sort of chicken-or-egg problem: without existing
activity, no major outside contributions can be expected, since no one
is interested in becoming the new sole responsible developer in the
project.

2. No value seen in making DSPAM more transparent
- -------------------------------------------------
On several occasions I've raised my voice on making DSPAM more usable
to new users, for instance by making error messages more informative,
or adding logging of normal operation (i.e. non-errors) so people get
a better hang of the product. Changes like this don't 'improve' DSPAM
filtering, but the they do make the software easier to use, and its
operation more transparent to new and experienced users.
Finding issues in software is easier when you actually understand what
it's trying to do, which in turn could result in more active users,
more useful bug reports, possible more contributed patches and in the
end maybe even more developers.
Right now DSPAM acts like a sort of black box for anyone not familiar
with the source code, and that discourages investigation of odd
behavior, which could be any of: configuration errors, bugs or missing
(but expected) features.

3. No drive on changing the status quo
- --------------------------------------
The situation that DSPAM is in right now, a sort of dormant or zombie
(not dead but far from alive) status, is not good. It doesn't attract
new users, it doesn't attract new developers, actually it only only
supports existing, experienced users. Nobody in the community, both in
the project maintainers as in the users community, seems to be
interested in changing that.
Based on my observations, that seems that people seem to think that
DSPAM is either feature-complete and bug-free, or they just lack the
motivation/energy/time/whatever to contribute anything.

Because I care about DSPAM, in the years I've active within the
project all of these issues have bothered me multiple times. I've
tried to address stuff that I could address, or tried to raise
awareness for other things. I didn't get much done though.
- From this I can only conclude that DSPAM is a sort of dead project.
Just like I wouldn't like to get myself (or my company, for instance)
depending on a piece of software in this state, I think that nobody
should get the impression that DSPAM is supported by an active
community, when that support actually never goes beyond answering easy
questions on the users mailing list.

Therefore I'm resigning as DSPAM release manager, and will remove
myself as project admin from the sourceforge project. I hope others
will take up responsibility for the work I leave behind (and
unattended tasks listed above, or any tasks I didn't point out), so
maybe DPAM will become an active project in the future.

Kind regards,
        Tom Hendrikx


PS: I tried to address some of the issues listed above (logging of
regular operation, transparent code (including documentation), easier
ways of contribution) outside of the DSPAM code base itself, which
finally resulted in dspam-milter[1]. I'll continue to develop and
support that software, probably until I'll stop using DSPAM myself. If
I would ever abandon the project, proper notice (just like this one)
will be given.

[1] https://github.com/whyscream/dspam-milter
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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=lxQ5
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Reindl Harald
thank you for that important information!

i am considering dspam the last several months based
on the screenshots to replace a Barracuda appliance
over the long and looking at releases i got the
impression you describe below which is in case of
a public webinterface for users critical for security

Am 09.07.2014 16:04, schrieb Tom Hendrikx:

> Hello DSPAM community,
>
> After a few years of being active in the DSPAM community, I've decided
> to leave the project. Unlike others who silently stopped responding to
> mails and other inquiries, I'm documenting my reasons in the hopes
> that it might be of help/interest to others.
>
> When I actively joined the DSPAM project, it was in need of some new
> blood that helped out on development and other tasks, after most of
> the original participants of the community takeover from Sensory
> Networks somehow silently abandoned the project for reasons unknown
> (to me).
>
> After being active for a few years, I think I've seen most of the
> problems in the DSPAM project, and tried to address a few without
> result. The main issues I learned are listed below.
>
> 1. No active development
> ------------------------
> There is no one working on the DSPAM code. There are numerous bug
> reports and feature requests that could be addressed, and some parts
> in DSPAM have been ripe for refactoring or rewriting for a long time,
> but nobody is putting any effort into it. There is currently only one
> developer 'active' within the project, but you rarely see activity
> from this person.
> The most code changes in the last 2(?) years are from patches
> contributed through debian bugreports (thank you, debian maintainer).
> The fact that no one within the project is actively working on the
> code, creates a sort of chicken-or-egg problem: without existing
> activity, no major outside contributions can be expected, since no one
> is interested in becoming the new sole responsible developer in the
> project.
>
> 2. No value seen in making DSPAM more transparent
> -------------------------------------------------
> On several occasions I've raised my voice on making DSPAM more usable
> to new users, for instance by making error messages more informative,
> or adding logging of normal operation (i.e. non-errors) so people get
> a better hang of the product. Changes like this don't 'improve' DSPAM
> filtering, but the they do make the software easier to use, and its
> operation more transparent to new and experienced users.
> Finding issues in software is easier when you actually understand what
> it's trying to do, which in turn could result in more active users,
> more useful bug reports, possible more contributed patches and in the
> end maybe even more developers.
> Right now DSPAM acts like a sort of black box for anyone not familiar
> with the source code, and that discourages investigation of odd
> behavior, which could be any of: configuration errors, bugs or missing
> (but expected) features.
>
> 3. No drive on changing the status quo
> --------------------------------------
> The situation that DSPAM is in right now, a sort of dormant or zombie
> (not dead but far from alive) status, is not good. It doesn't attract
> new users, it doesn't attract new developers, actually it only only
> supports existing, experienced users. Nobody in the community, both in
> the project maintainers as in the users community, seems to be
> interested in changing that.
> Based on my observations, that seems that people seem to think that
> DSPAM is either feature-complete and bug-free, or they just lack the
> motivation/energy/time/whatever to contribute anything.
>
> Because I care about DSPAM, in the years I've active within the
> project all of these issues have bothered me multiple times. I've
> tried to address stuff that I could address, or tried to raise
> awareness for other things. I didn't get much done though.
> - From this I can only conclude that DSPAM is a sort of dead project.
> Just like I wouldn't like to get myself (or my company, for instance)
> depending on a piece of software in this state, I think that nobody
> should get the impression that DSPAM is supported by an active
> community, when that support actually never goes beyond answering easy
> questions on the users mailing list.
>
> Therefore I'm resigning as DSPAM release manager, and will remove
> myself as project admin from the sourceforge project. I hope others
> will take up responsibility for the work I leave behind (and
> unattended tasks listed above, or any tasks I didn't point out), so
> maybe DPAM will become an active project in the future.
>
> Kind regards,
> Tom Hendrikx
>
>
> PS: I tried to address some of the issues listed above (logging of
> regular operation, transparent code (including documentation), easier
> ways of contribution) outside of the DSPAM code base itself, which
> finally resulted in dspam-milter[1]. I'll continue to develop and
> support that software, probably until I'll stop using DSPAM myself. If
> I would ever abandon the project, proper notice (just like this one)
> will be given.
>
> [1] https://github.com/whyscream/dspam-milter

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user

signature.asc (254 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Terry Barnum
In reply to this post by Tom Hendrikx
On Jul 9, 2014, at 7:04 AM, Tom Hendrikx <[hidden email]> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Hello DSPAM community,
>
> After a few years of being active in the DSPAM community, I've decided
> to leave the project. Unlike others who silently stopped responding to
> mails and other inquiries, I'm documenting my reasons in the hopes
> that it might be of help/interest to others.

Thank you Tom. What you describe is unfortunately what I assumed was happening. Maybe this is the place to start discussing alternatives for the benefit of all current DSPAM users. I'd be very interested to hear what you're considering as a replacement.

-Terry

Terry Barnum
digital OutPost
http://www.dop.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Tom Hendrikx
In reply to this post by Reindl Harald
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256


Hi Harald,

The only thing that is in the screenshots is the web gui, which is
ancient in the way it looks, the usability, and in the way it
communicates to the backend. It could also have security issues but I
never looked into them.

I always used the dovecot-antispam plugin and imap folders for
quarantine management and retraining, and I never seriously considered
the webgui, for all of the reasons above.

Tom

On 09-07-14 16:27, Reindl Harald wrote:

> thank you for that important information!
>
> i am considering dspam the last several months based on the
> screenshots to replace a Barracuda appliance over the long and
> looking at releases i got the impression you describe below which
> is in case of a public webinterface for users critical for
> security
>
> Am 09.07.2014 16:04, schrieb Tom Hendrikx:
>> Hello DSPAM community,
>>
>> After a few years of being active in the DSPAM community, I've
>> decided to leave the project. Unlike others who silently stopped
>> responding to mails and other inquiries, I'm documenting my
>> reasons in the hopes that it might be of help/interest to
>> others.
>>
>> When I actively joined the DSPAM project, it was in need of some
>> new blood that helped out on development and other tasks, after
>> most of the original participants of the community takeover from
>> Sensory Networks somehow silently abandoned the project for
>> reasons unknown (to me).
>>
>> After being active for a few years, I think I've seen most of
>> the problems in the DSPAM project, and tried to address a few
>> without result. The main issues I learned are listed below.
>>
>> 1. No active development ------------------------ There is no one
>> working on the DSPAM code. There are numerous bug reports and
>> feature requests that could be addressed, and some parts in DSPAM
>> have been ripe for refactoring or rewriting for a long time, but
>> nobody is putting any effort into it. There is currently only
>> one developer 'active' within the project, but you rarely see
>> activity from this person. The most code changes in the last 2(?)
>> years are from patches contributed through debian bugreports
>> (thank you, debian maintainer). The fact that no one within the
>> project is actively working on the code, creates a sort of
>> chicken-or-egg problem: without existing activity, no major
>> outside contributions can be expected, since no one is interested
>> in becoming the new sole responsible developer in the project.
>>
>> 2. No value seen in making DSPAM more transparent
>> ------------------------------------------------- On several
>> occasions I've raised my voice on making DSPAM more usable to new
>> users, for instance by making error messages more informative, or
>> adding logging of normal operation (i.e. non-errors) so people
>> get a better hang of the product. Changes like this don't
>> 'improve' DSPAM filtering, but the they do make the software
>> easier to use, and its operation more transparent to new and
>> experienced users. Finding issues in software is easier when you
>> actually understand what it's trying to do, which in turn could
>> result in more active users, more useful bug reports, possible
>> more contributed patches and in the end maybe even more
>> developers. Right now DSPAM acts like a sort of black box for
>> anyone not familiar with the source code, and that discourages
>> investigation of odd behavior, which could be any of:
>> configuration errors, bugs or missing (but expected) features.
>>
>> 3. No drive on changing the status quo
>> -------------------------------------- The situation that DSPAM
>> is in right now, a sort of dormant or zombie (not dead but far
>> from alive) status, is not good. It doesn't attract new users, it
>> doesn't attract new developers, actually it only only supports
>> existing, experienced users. Nobody in the community, both in the
>> project maintainers as in the users community, seems to be
>> interested in changing that. Based on my observations, that seems
>> that people seem to think that DSPAM is either feature-complete
>> and bug-free, or they just lack the
>> motivation/energy/time/whatever to contribute anything.
>>
>> Because I care about DSPAM, in the years I've active within the
>> project all of these issues have bothered me multiple times.
>> I've tried to address stuff that I could address, or tried to
>> raise awareness for other things. I didn't get much done though.
>> - From this I can only conclude that DSPAM is a sort of dead
>> project. Just like I wouldn't like to get myself (or my company,
>> for instance) depending on a piece of software in this state, I
>> think that nobody should get the impression that DSPAM is
>> supported by an active community, when that support actually
>> never goes beyond answering easy questions on the users mailing
>> list.
>>
>> Therefore I'm resigning as DSPAM release manager, and will
>> remove myself as project admin from the sourceforge project. I
>> hope others will take up responsibility for the work I leave
>> behind (and unattended tasks listed above, or any tasks I didn't
>> point out), so maybe DPAM will become an active project in the
>> future.
>>
>> Kind regards, Tom Hendrikx
>>
>>
>> PS: I tried to address some of the issues listed above (logging
>> of regular operation, transparent code (including documentation),
>> easier ways of contribution) outside of the DSPAM code base
>> itself, which finally resulted in dspam-milter[1]. I'll continue
>> to develop and support that software, probably until I'll stop
>> using DSPAM myself. If I would ever abandon the project, proper
>> notice (just like this one) will be given.
>>
>> [1] https://github.com/whyscream/dspam-milter
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse

> Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community
> Edition Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized
> workflows Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Dspam-user mailing
> list [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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=7G3h
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Reindl Harald


Am 10.07.2014 13:33, schrieb Tom Hendrikx:
> Hi Harald,
>
> The only thing that is in the screenshots is the web gui, which is
> ancient in the way it looks, the usability, and in the way it
> communicates to the backend

well, it looks like older Barracuda Firewall UI's
that's what the users know

> It could also have security issues but I never looked into them.

*that* is the problem - a over years unmaintained webui is
insecure or written by god without mistakes which is unlikely :-)

> I always used the dovecot-antispam plugin and imap folders for
> quarantine management and retraining, and I never seriously considered
> the webgui, for all of the reasons above.

well, that's not an option if someone is using

a) DBMail
b) most users are POP3 for good reasons which are off-topic

however, i will buildup with blacklists/postscreen, spamassassin, clamav
and ptr-filters without any wbeinterface or user-training

> On 09-07-14 16:27, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> thank you for that important information!
>
>> i am considering dspam the last several months based on the
>> screenshots to replace a Barracuda appliance over the long and
>> looking at releases i got the impression you describe below which
>> is in case of a public webinterface for users critical for
>> security
>
>> Am 09.07.2014 16:04, schrieb Tom Hendrikx:
>>> Hello DSPAM community,
>>>
>>> After a few years of being active in the DSPAM community, I've
>>> decided to leave the project. Unlike others who silently stopped
>>> responding to mails and other inquiries, I'm documenting my
>>> reasons in the hopes that it might be of help/interest to
>>> others.
>>>
>>> When I actively joined the DSPAM project, it was in need of some
>>> new blood that helped out on development and other tasks, after
>>> most of the original participants of the community takeover from
>>> Sensory Networks somehow silently abandoned the project for
>>> reasons unknown (to me).
>>>
>>> After being active for a few years, I think I've seen most of
>>> the problems in the DSPAM project, and tried to address a few
>>> without result. The main issues I learned are listed below.
>>>
>>> 1. No active development ------------------------ There is no one
>>> working on the DSPAM code. There are numerous bug reports and
>>> feature requests that could be addressed, and some parts in DSPAM
>>> have been ripe for refactoring or rewriting for a long time, but
>>> nobody is putting any effort into it. There is currently only
>>> one developer 'active' within the project, but you rarely see
>>> activity from this person. The most code changes in the last 2(?)
>>> years are from patches contributed through debian bugreports
>>> (thank you, debian maintainer). The fact that no one within the
>>> project is actively working on the code, creates a sort of
>>> chicken-or-egg problem: without existing activity, no major
>>> outside contributions can be expected, since no one is interested
>>> in becoming the new sole responsible developer in the project.
>>>
>>> 2. No value seen in making DSPAM more transparent
>>> ------------------------------------------------- On several
>>> occasions I've raised my voice on making DSPAM more usable to new
>>> users, for instance by making error messages more informative, or
>>> adding logging of normal operation (i.e. non-errors) so people
>>> get a better hang of the product. Changes like this don't
>>> 'improve' DSPAM filtering, but the they do make the software
>>> easier to use, and its operation more transparent to new and
>>> experienced users. Finding issues in software is easier when you
>>> actually understand what it's trying to do, which in turn could
>>> result in more active users, more useful bug reports, possible
>>> more contributed patches and in the end maybe even more
>>> developers. Right now DSPAM acts like a sort of black box for
>>> anyone not familiar with the source code, and that discourages
>>> investigation of odd behavior, which could be any of:
>>> configuration errors, bugs or missing (but expected) features.
>>>
>>> 3. No drive on changing the status quo
>>> -------------------------------------- The situation that DSPAM
>>> is in right now, a sort of dormant or zombie (not dead but far
>>> from alive) status, is not good. It doesn't attract new users, it
>>> doesn't attract new developers, actually it only only supports
>>> existing, experienced users. Nobody in the community, both in the
>>> project maintainers as in the users community, seems to be
>>> interested in changing that. Based on my observations, that seems
>>> that people seem to think that DSPAM is either feature-complete
>>> and bug-free, or they just lack the
>>> motivation/energy/time/whatever to contribute anything.
>>>
>>> Because I care about DSPAM, in the years I've active within the
>>> project all of these issues have bothered me multiple times.
>>> I've tried to address stuff that I could address, or tried to
>>> raise awareness for other things. I didn't get much done though.
>>> - From this I can only conclude that DSPAM is a sort of dead
>>> project. Just like I wouldn't like to get myself (or my company,
>>> for instance) depending on a piece of software in this state, I
>>> think that nobody should get the impression that DSPAM is
>>> supported by an active community, when that support actually
>>> never goes beyond answering easy questions on the users mailing
>>> list.
>>>
>>> Therefore I'm resigning as DSPAM release manager, and will
>>> remove myself as project admin from the sourceforge project. I
>>> hope others will take up responsibility for the work I leave
>>> behind (and unattended tasks listed above, or any tasks I didn't
>>> point out), so maybe DPAM will become an active project in the
>>> future.
>>>
>>> Kind regards, Tom Hendrikx
>>>
>>>
>>> PS: I tried to address some of the issues listed above (logging
>>> of regular operation, transparent code (including documentation),
>>> easier ways of contribution) outside of the DSPAM code base
>>> itself, which finally resulted in dspam-milter[1]. I'll continue
>>> to develop and support that software, probably until I'll stop
>>> using DSPAM myself. If I would ever abandon the project, proper
>>> notice (just like this one) will be given.
>>>
>>> [1] https://github.com/whyscream/dspam-milter

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user

signature.asc (254 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

ktm@rice.edu
Hi,

The web interface is klunky, but the code problems relate more to
DoS problems with very large quarantine sizes since it reads the
entire mailbox into memory. It used to be a real problem back when
machines had a few megabytes of memory, not so much when it is in
the gigabytes. :) This is so little of a problem now that we never
implemented monitoring quarantine sizes to automatically disable
the quarantine if it got "too big". We are working on our update
to the latest release, and I will be checking out the newer version
of the gui. It definitely works, but folder training is much more
multi-device friendly. So I would start with that and use the
web gui as a fall-back.

Regards,
Ken

On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 01:48:39PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

>
>
> Am 10.07.2014 13:33, schrieb Tom Hendrikx:
> > Hi Harald,
> >
> > The only thing that is in the screenshots is the web gui, which is
> > ancient in the way it looks, the usability, and in the way it
> > communicates to the backend
>
> well, it looks like older Barracuda Firewall UI's
> that's what the users know
>
> > It could also have security issues but I never looked into them.
>
> *that* is the problem - a over years unmaintained webui is
> insecure or written by god without mistakes which is unlikely :-)
>
> > I always used the dovecot-antispam plugin and imap folders for
> > quarantine management and retraining, and I never seriously considered
> > the webgui, for all of the reasons above.
>
> well, that's not an option if someone is using
>
> a) DBMail
> b) most users are POP3 for good reasons which are off-topic
>
> however, i will buildup with blacklists/postscreen, spamassassin, clamav
> and ptr-filters without any wbeinterface or user-training
>
> > On 09-07-14 16:27, Reindl Harald wrote:
> >> thank you for that important information!
> >
> >> i am considering dspam the last several months based on the
> >> screenshots to replace a Barracuda appliance over the long and
> >> looking at releases i got the impression you describe below which
> >> is in case of a public webinterface for users critical for
> >> security
> >
> >> Am 09.07.2014 16:04, schrieb Tom Hendrikx:
> >>> Hello DSPAM community,
> >>>
> >>> After a few years of being active in the DSPAM community, I've
> >>> decided to leave the project. Unlike others who silently stopped
> >>> responding to mails and other inquiries, I'm documenting my
> >>> reasons in the hopes that it might be of help/interest to
> >>> others.
> >>>
> >>> When I actively joined the DSPAM project, it was in need of some
> >>> new blood that helped out on development and other tasks, after
> >>> most of the original participants of the community takeover from
> >>> Sensory Networks somehow silently abandoned the project for
> >>> reasons unknown (to me).
> >>>
> >>> After being active for a few years, I think I've seen most of
> >>> the problems in the DSPAM project, and tried to address a few
> >>> without result. The main issues I learned are listed below.
> >>>
> >>> 1. No active development ------------------------ There is no one
> >>> working on the DSPAM code. There are numerous bug reports and
> >>> feature requests that could be addressed, and some parts in DSPAM
> >>> have been ripe for refactoring or rewriting for a long time, but
> >>> nobody is putting any effort into it. There is currently only
> >>> one developer 'active' within the project, but you rarely see
> >>> activity from this person. The most code changes in the last 2(?)
> >>> years are from patches contributed through debian bugreports
> >>> (thank you, debian maintainer). The fact that no one within the
> >>> project is actively working on the code, creates a sort of
> >>> chicken-or-egg problem: without existing activity, no major
> >>> outside contributions can be expected, since no one is interested
> >>> in becoming the new sole responsible developer in the project.
> >>>
> >>> 2. No value seen in making DSPAM more transparent
> >>> ------------------------------------------------- On several
> >>> occasions I've raised my voice on making DSPAM more usable to new
> >>> users, for instance by making error messages more informative, or
> >>> adding logging of normal operation (i.e. non-errors) so people
> >>> get a better hang of the product. Changes like this don't
> >>> 'improve' DSPAM filtering, but the they do make the software
> >>> easier to use, and its operation more transparent to new and
> >>> experienced users. Finding issues in software is easier when you
> >>> actually understand what it's trying to do, which in turn could
> >>> result in more active users, more useful bug reports, possible
> >>> more contributed patches and in the end maybe even more
> >>> developers. Right now DSPAM acts like a sort of black box for
> >>> anyone not familiar with the source code, and that discourages
> >>> investigation of odd behavior, which could be any of:
> >>> configuration errors, bugs or missing (but expected) features.
> >>>
> >>> 3. No drive on changing the status quo
> >>> -------------------------------------- The situation that DSPAM
> >>> is in right now, a sort of dormant or zombie (not dead but far
> >>> from alive) status, is not good. It doesn't attract new users, it
> >>> doesn't attract new developers, actually it only only supports
> >>> existing, experienced users. Nobody in the community, both in the
> >>> project maintainers as in the users community, seems to be
> >>> interested in changing that. Based on my observations, that seems
> >>> that people seem to think that DSPAM is either feature-complete
> >>> and bug-free, or they just lack the
> >>> motivation/energy/time/whatever to contribute anything.
> >>>
> >>> Because I care about DSPAM, in the years I've active within the
> >>> project all of these issues have bothered me multiple times.
> >>> I've tried to address stuff that I could address, or tried to
> >>> raise awareness for other things. I didn't get much done though.
> >>> - From this I can only conclude that DSPAM is a sort of dead
> >>> project. Just like I wouldn't like to get myself (or my company,
> >>> for instance) depending on a piece of software in this state, I
> >>> think that nobody should get the impression that DSPAM is
> >>> supported by an active community, when that support actually
> >>> never goes beyond answering easy questions on the users mailing
> >>> list.
> >>>
> >>> Therefore I'm resigning as DSPAM release manager, and will
> >>> remove myself as project admin from the sourceforge project. I
> >>> hope others will take up responsibility for the work I leave
> >>> behind (and unattended tasks listed above, or any tasks I didn't
> >>> point out), so maybe DPAM will become an active project in the
> >>> future.
> >>>
> >>> Kind regards, Tom Hendrikx
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> PS: I tried to address some of the issues listed above (logging
> >>> of regular operation, transparent code (including documentation),
> >>> easier ways of contribution) outside of the DSPAM code base
> >>> itself, which finally resulted in dspam-milter[1]. I'll continue
> >>> to develop and support that software, probably until I'll stop
> >>> using DSPAM myself. If I would ever abandon the project, proper
> >>> notice (just like this one) will be given.
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://github.com/whyscream/dspam-milter
>



> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
> Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
> Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
> Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft

> _______________________________________________
> Dspam-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Reindl Harald


Am 10.07.2014 14:26, schrieb [hidden email]:
> The web interface is klunky, but the code problems relate more to
> DoS problems with very large quarantine sizes since it reads the
> entire mailbox into memory. It used to be a real problem back when
> machines had a few megabytes of memory, not so much when it is in
> the gigabytes. :)

ouch :-)

> This is so little of a problem now that we never
> implemented monitoring quarantine sizes to automatically disable
> the quarantine if it got "too big". We are working on our update
> to the latest release, and I will be checking out the newer version
> of the gui.

uhm mails older than x days should be deleted automatically

> It definitely works, but folder training is much more
> multi-device friendly. So I would start with that and use the
> web gui as a fall-back.

folder training can't work if someone wants to replace
a spamfirewall because on that machine is no folder at
all and in case of DBMail also not on the same machine

the goal is to have a MX for a lot of domains which
does postcreen/pre-queue content-filtering and deliver
good messages via transports to the final server

besides that you can have one spamfilter machine for
different endpoint servers with different domains
there you also no longer mix incoming and outgoing
mailflow as well logs for both

> On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 01:48:39PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>
>>
>> Am 10.07.2014 13:33, schrieb Tom Hendrikx:
>>> Hi Harald,
>>>
>>> The only thing that is in the screenshots is the web gui, which is
>>> ancient in the way it looks, the usability, and in the way it
>>> communicates to the backend
>>
>> well, it looks like older Barracuda Firewall UI's
>> that's what the users know
>>
>>> It could also have security issues but I never looked into them.
>>
>> *that* is the problem - a over years unmaintained webui is
>> insecure or written by god without mistakes which is unlikely :-)
>>
>>> I always used the dovecot-antispam plugin and imap folders for
>>> quarantine management and retraining, and I never seriously considered
>>> the webgui, for all of the reasons above.
>>
>> well, that's not an option if someone is using
>>
>> a) DBMail
>> b) most users are POP3 for good reasons which are off-topic
>>
>> however, i will buildup with blacklists/postscreen, spamassassin, clamav
>> and ptr-filters without any wbeinterface or user-training
>>
>>> On 09-07-14 16:27, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>>> thank you for that important information!
>>>
>>>> i am considering dspam the last several months based on the
>>>> screenshots to replace a Barracuda appliance over the long and
>>>> looking at releases i got the impression you describe below which
>>>> is in case of a public webinterface for users critical for
>>>> security
>>>
>>>> Am 09.07.2014 16:04, schrieb Tom Hendrikx:
>>>>> Hello DSPAM community,
>>>>>
>>>>> After a few years of being active in the DSPAM community, I've
>>>>> decided to leave the project. Unlike others who silently stopped
>>>>> responding to mails and other inquiries, I'm documenting my
>>>>> reasons in the hopes that it might be of help/interest to
>>>>> others.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I actively joined the DSPAM project, it was in need of some
>>>>> new blood that helped out on development and other tasks, after
>>>>> most of the original participants of the community takeover from
>>>>> Sensory Networks somehow silently abandoned the project for
>>>>> reasons unknown (to me).
>>>>>
>>>>> After being active for a few years, I think I've seen most of
>>>>> the problems in the DSPAM project, and tried to address a few
>>>>> without result. The main issues I learned are listed below.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. No active development ------------------------ There is no one
>>>>> working on the DSPAM code. There are numerous bug reports and
>>>>> feature requests that could be addressed, and some parts in DSPAM
>>>>> have been ripe for refactoring or rewriting for a long time, but
>>>>> nobody is putting any effort into it. There is currently only
>>>>> one developer 'active' within the project, but you rarely see
>>>>> activity from this person. The most code changes in the last 2(?)
>>>>> years are from patches contributed through debian bugreports
>>>>> (thank you, debian maintainer). The fact that no one within the
>>>>> project is actively working on the code, creates a sort of
>>>>> chicken-or-egg problem: without existing activity, no major
>>>>> outside contributions can be expected, since no one is interested
>>>>> in becoming the new sole responsible developer in the project.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. No value seen in making DSPAM more transparent
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------- On several
>>>>> occasions I've raised my voice on making DSPAM more usable to new
>>>>> users, for instance by making error messages more informative, or
>>>>> adding logging of normal operation (i.e. non-errors) so people
>>>>> get a better hang of the product. Changes like this don't
>>>>> 'improve' DSPAM filtering, but the they do make the software
>>>>> easier to use, and its operation more transparent to new and
>>>>> experienced users. Finding issues in software is easier when you
>>>>> actually understand what it's trying to do, which in turn could
>>>>> result in more active users, more useful bug reports, possible
>>>>> more contributed patches and in the end maybe even more
>>>>> developers. Right now DSPAM acts like a sort of black box for
>>>>> anyone not familiar with the source code, and that discourages
>>>>> investigation of odd behavior, which could be any of:
>>>>> configuration errors, bugs or missing (but expected) features.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. No drive on changing the status quo
>>>>> -------------------------------------- The situation that DSPAM
>>>>> is in right now, a sort of dormant or zombie (not dead but far
>>>>> from alive) status, is not good. It doesn't attract new users, it
>>>>> doesn't attract new developers, actually it only only supports
>>>>> existing, experienced users. Nobody in the community, both in the
>>>>> project maintainers as in the users community, seems to be
>>>>> interested in changing that. Based on my observations, that seems
>>>>> that people seem to think that DSPAM is either feature-complete
>>>>> and bug-free, or they just lack the
>>>>> motivation/energy/time/whatever to contribute anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because I care about DSPAM, in the years I've active within the
>>>>> project all of these issues have bothered me multiple times.
>>>>> I've tried to address stuff that I could address, or tried to
>>>>> raise awareness for other things. I didn't get much done though.
>>>>> - From this I can only conclude that DSPAM is a sort of dead
>>>>> project. Just like I wouldn't like to get myself (or my company,
>>>>> for instance) depending on a piece of software in this state, I
>>>>> think that nobody should get the impression that DSPAM is
>>>>> supported by an active community, when that support actually
>>>>> never goes beyond answering easy questions on the users mailing
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Therefore I'm resigning as DSPAM release manager, and will
>>>>> remove myself as project admin from the sourceforge project. I
>>>>> hope others will take up responsibility for the work I leave
>>>>> behind (and unattended tasks listed above, or any tasks I didn't
>>>>> point out), so maybe DPAM will become an active project in the
>>>>> future.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards, Tom Hendrikx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> PS: I tried to address some of the issues listed above (logging
>>>>> of regular operation, transparent code (including documentation),
>>>>> easier ways of contribution) outside of the DSPAM code base
>>>>> itself, which finally resulted in dspam-milter[1]. I'll continue
>>>>> to develop and support that software, probably until I'll stop
>>>>> using DSPAM myself. If I would ever abandon the project, proper
>>>>> notice (just like this one) will be given.
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://github.com/whyscream/dspam-milter

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user

signature.asc (254 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Eric Shubert
On 07/10/2014 05:41 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> the goal is to have a MX for a lot of domains which
> does postcreen/pre-queue content-filtering and deliver
> good messages via transports to the final server

Might I suggest using spamdyke (http://spamdyke.org) for this? Spamdyke
does no content filtering, but it's *very* effective at blocking spam.
It will typically block 80-90% of spam, without even receiving (or
scanning) it. As such, it's very light weight.

You'll still want to do content filtering down the line (perhaps during
delivery), but with spamdyke up front, there'll be a lot less scanning
to do.

The downside of spamdyke is that it presently only works with qmail.
However, with QMailToaster
(https://github.com/QMailToaster/qmailtoaster-util/blob/master/README.install)
you can have a spamdyke filter for multiple domains up and running in
less than an hour. There are many QMT hosts used in production
configurations this way.

Just a suggestion.

Disclaimer: I am the project lead for QMailToaster. I hope that doesn't
deter you checking it out though. We have a very strong (and friendly)
community. We do our own DNS (dig -t NS qmailtoaster.com) and mirrors
(host mirrors.qmailtoaster.com), for example.

--
-Eric 'shubes'


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Reindl Harald

Am 10.07.2014 19:50, schrieb Eric Shubert:
> On 07/10/2014 05:41 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> the goal is to have a MX for a lot of domains which
>> does postcreen/pre-queue content-filtering and deliver
>> good messages via transports to the final server
>
> Might I suggest using spamdyke (http://spamdyke.org) for this? Spamdyke
> does no content filtering, but it's *very* effective at blocking spam.
> It will typically block 80-90% of spam, without even receiving (or
> scanning) it. As such, it's very light weight.

A drop-in connection-time spam filter for qmail

no way - qmail is practically unmaintained over years
and for somebody who wrote complext webinterfaces for
postfix and has so a lot of shared backend code anyways
a no-go

this days a spamfilter should generally lead to a
vendor-lockin for a specific MTA

> You'll still want to do content filtering down the line (perhaps during
> delivery), but with spamdyke up front, there'll be a lot less scanning
> to do.
>
> The downside of spamdyke is that it presently only works with qmail.
> However, with QMailToaster
> (https://github.com/QMailToaster/qmailtoaster-util/blob/master/README.install)
> you can have a spamdyke filter for multiple domains up and running in
> less than an hour. There are many QMT hosts used in production
> configurations this way.
>
> Just a suggestion.
>
> Disclaimer: I am the project lead for QMailToaster. I hope that doesn't
> deter you checking it out though. We have a very strong (and friendly)
> community. We do our own DNS (dig -t NS qmailtoaster.com) and mirrors
> (host mirrors.qmailtoaster.com), for example

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user

signature.asc (254 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Eric Shubert
I don't think you understand what I meant. It would run as a stand-alone
(preferably virtual) host. It'd be transparent to anything you already
have. I thought that was your objective. If not, please feel free to ignore.
Thanks.
--
-Eric 'shubes'

On 07/10/2014 02:52 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:

>
> Am 10.07.2014 19:50, schrieb Eric Shubert:
>> On 07/10/2014 05:41 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>> the goal is to have a MX for a lot of domains which
>>> does postcreen/pre-queue content-filtering and deliver
>>> good messages via transports to the final server
>>
>> Might I suggest using spamdyke (http://spamdyke.org) for this? Spamdyke
>> does no content filtering, but it's *very* effective at blocking spam.
>> It will typically block 80-90% of spam, without even receiving (or
>> scanning) it. As such, it's very light weight.
>
> A drop-in connection-time spam filter for qmail
>
> no way - qmail is practically unmaintained over years
> and for somebody who wrote complext webinterfaces for
> postfix and has so a lot of shared backend code anyways
> a no-go
>
> this days a spamfilter should generally lead to a
> vendor-lockin for a specific MTA
>
>> You'll still want to do content filtering down the line (perhaps during
>> delivery), but with spamdyke up front, there'll be a lot less scanning
>> to do.
>>
>> The downside of spamdyke is that it presently only works with qmail.
>> However, with QMailToaster
>> (https://github.com/QMailToaster/qmailtoaster-util/blob/master/README.install)
>> you can have a spamdyke filter for multiple domains up and running in
>> less than an hour. There are many QMT hosts used in production
>> configurations this way.
>>
>> Just a suggestion.
>>
>> Disclaimer: I am the project lead for QMailToaster. I hope that doesn't
>> deter you checking it out though. We have a very strong (and friendly)
>> community. We do our own DNS (dig -t NS qmailtoaster.com) and mirrors
>> (host mirrors.qmailtoaster.com), for example
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
> Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
> Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
> Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dspam-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
>




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Reindl Harald


Am 11.07.2014 00:54, schrieb Eric Shubert:
> I don't think you understand what I meant. It would run as a stand-alone
> (preferably virtual) host. It'd be transparent to anything you already
> have. I thought that was your objective. If not, please feel free to ignore.
> Thanks

no - you got me wrong

since i am a long-years postfix administrator and have a lot
of other daily jobs (development, dbma, secuirty and so on)
spamdyke would introducing qmial be another software i need
to care

as exmaple i know exactly how to build up sql-based transports
from the xisting servers and databases and would need to start
by zero with qmail

rhe content-filter itself is only the last defense after
SPF, RBL-weighting, PTR-blacklists, protocol violations

in general i don't like the qmail release history and the
"my software has no bugs and is finished"-attitude of DJB


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user

signature.asc (254 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Eric Shubert
On 07/10/2014 04:12 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:

>
>
> Am 11.07.2014 00:54, schrieb Eric Shubert:
>> I don't think you understand what I meant. It would run as a stand-alone
>> (preferably virtual) host. It'd be transparent to anything you already
>> have. I thought that was your objective. If not, please feel free to ignore.
>> Thanks
>
> no - you got me wrong
>
> since i am a long-years postfix administrator and have a lot
> of other daily jobs (development, dbma, secuirty and so on)
> spamdyke would introducing qmial be another software i need
> to care
>
> as exmaple i know exactly how to build up sql-based transports
> from the xisting servers and databases and would need to start
> by zero with qmail
>
> rhe content-filter itself is only the last defense after
> SPF, RBL-weighting, PTR-blacklists, protocol violations
>
> in general i don't like the qmail release history and the
> "my software has no bugs and is finished"-attitude of DJB
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In that case you might want to keep an eye on spamdyke. The author is
considering packaging it such that it can be used with postfix as well
(in fact any smtp transport), as sort of a reverse smtp proxy. I expect
spamdyke will become much more widely used when that happens. It's the
most effective and efficient piece of anti-spam software out there ttbomk.

--
-Eric 'shubes'


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Erwan David
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 03:22:43AM CEST, Eric Shubert <[hidden email]> said:

> On 07/10/2014 04:12 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> >
> >
> > Am 11.07.2014 00:54, schrieb Eric Shubert:
> >> I don't think you understand what I meant. It would run as a stand-alone
> >> (preferably virtual) host. It'd be transparent to anything you already
> >> have. I thought that was your objective. If not, please feel free to ignore.
> >> Thanks
> >
> > no - you got me wrong
> >
> > since i am a long-years postfix administrator and have a lot
> > of other daily jobs (development, dbma, secuirty and so on)
> > spamdyke would introducing qmial be another software i need
> > to care
> >
> > as exmaple i know exactly how to build up sql-based transports
> > from the xisting servers and databases and would need to start
> > by zero with qmail
> >
> > rhe content-filter itself is only the last defense after
> > SPF, RBL-weighting, PTR-blacklists, protocol violations
> >
> > in general i don't like the qmail release history and the
> > "my software has no bugs and is finished"-attitude of DJB
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> In that case you might want to keep an eye on spamdyke. The author is
> considering packaging it such that it can be used with postfix as well
> (in fact any smtp transport), as sort of a reverse smtp proxy. I expect
> spamdyke will become much more widely used when that happens. It's the
> most effective and efficient piece of anti-spam software out there ttbomk.
>

When I look at spamdyke's feature I do not see mucjh which postfix does not already do.

Maybe it can filter on more than one header line, except that postfix does already do everything that is adverted on home page.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

ML mail
spamdyke was clearly developed for all the lack of qmail and as you say Erwan, it is useless for postfix which already implements all these features nicely.





On Friday, July 11, 2014 9:52 AM, Erwan David <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 03:22:43AM CEST, Eric Shubert <[hidden email]> said:

> On 07/10/2014 04:12 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> >
> >
> > Am 11.07.2014 00:54, schrieb Eric Shubert:
> >> I don't think you understand what I meant. It would run as a stand-alone
> >> (preferably virtual) host. It'd be transparent to anything you already
> >> have. I thought that was your objective. If not, please feel free to ignore.
> >> Thanks
> >
> > no - you got me wrong
> >
> > since i am a long-years postfix administrator and have a lot
> > of other daily jobs (development, dbma, secuirty and so on)
> > spamdyke would introducing qmial be another software i need
> > to care
> >
> > as exmaple i know exactly how to build up sql-based transports
> > from the xisting servers and databases and would need to start
> > by zero with qmail
> >
> > rhe content-filter itself is only the last defense after
> > SPF, RBL-weighting, PTR-blacklists, protocol violations
> >
> > in general i don't like the qmail release history and the
> > "my software has no bugs and is finished"-attitude of DJB
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> In that case you might want to keep an eye on spamdyke. The author is
> considering packaging it such that it can be used with postfix as well
> (in fact any smtp transport), as sort of a reverse smtp proxy. I expect
> spamdyke will become much more widely used when that happens. It's the
> most effective and efficient piece of anti-spam software out there ttbomk.
>

When I look at spamdyke's feature I do not see mucjh which postfix does not already do.

Maybe it can filter on more than one header line, except that postfix does already do everything that is adverted on home page.




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Harry Duncan
In reply to this post by Erwan David
On 7/11/14, Erwan David <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> In that case you might want to keep an eye on spamdyke. The author is
>> considering packaging it such that it can be used with postfix as well
>> (in fact any smtp transport), as sort of a reverse smtp proxy. I expect
>> spamdyke will become much more widely used when that happens. It's the
>> most effective and efficient piece of anti-spam software out there
>> ttbomk.
>>
>
> When I look at spamdyke's feature I do not see mucjh which postfix does not
> already do.
>
> Maybe it can filter on more than one header line, except that postfix does
> already do everything that is adverted on home page.

I've always felt the best antispam approach was going to be a combined
approach, multiple tools performing a weighted opinion. For that,
mailscanner.info was the tool, except for me, I like to use
courier-mta and it was strictly postfix mailqueues.

I leaned towards the dspam project because it could be directly
invoked from maildrop, but the obvious deadness in the project held me
back, and then the traffic on the lists following the rebirth showed
that it was a solution that led to problems.

Now I am leaning towards:ASSP as the solution for my needs:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/assp/

My advice to anyone out there looking to do something different from
dspam? run with mailscanner and all its plugins if you have postfix
queues, or assp if you have something different that is not compatible
with mailscanner.

HTH

Harry.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Dudi Goldenberg
>>> In that case you might want to keep an eye on spamdyke. The author is
>>> considering packaging it such that it can be used with postfix as well
>>> (in fact any smtp transport), as sort of a reverse smtp proxy. I expect
>>> spamdyke will become much more widely used when that happens. It's the
>>> most effective and efficient piece of anti-spam software out there
>>> ttbomk.
>>>
>>
>> When I look at spamdyke's feature I do not see mucjh which postfix does not
>> already do.
>>
>> Maybe it can filter on more than one header line, except that postfix does
>> already do everything that is adverted on home page.
>
>I've always felt the best antispam approach was going to be a combined
>approach, multiple tools performing a weighted opinion. For that,

Take a look at j-chkmail http://www.j-chkmail.org/wiki/doku.php it does wonders for me.

D.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Reindl Harald
In reply to this post by Harry Duncan


Am 11.07.2014 10:06, schrieb Harry Duncan:
> My advice to anyone out there looking to do something different from
> dspam? run with mailscanner and all its plugins if you have postfix
> queues

do *not* recommend crap like mailscanner

"if you have postfix queues" should trigger alerts
nobody and nothing is allowed to touch the queue directly
that is not an public API - period - see below

> On Saturday 30 August 2003 7:11 pm, Mike Kercher wrote:
> > > > This is what Wietse Venema says about MailScanner:
> > > >
> > > > "MailScanner is unsafe. It bypasses the correct interfaces to
> > > > access queue files. I would not trust it with Postfix or with any
> > > > other MTA."
> > >
> > > Excuse my ignorance, but who is Wietse Venema? And more importantly,
> > > why does this person's opinion matter?
> >
> > He be the author of Postfix

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user

signature.asc (254 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Patrick Laimbock
In reply to this post by Harry Duncan
On 11-07-14 10:06, Harry Duncan wrote:
[snip]
> My advice to anyone out there looking to do something different from
> dspam? run with mailscanner and all its plugins if you have postfix
> queues, or assp if you have something different that is not compatible
> with mailscanner.

It's probably a good idea to first read Wietse Venema's (author of
Postfix) take on Mailscanner which boils down to:

"Mailscanner manipulates Postfix mail using unsupported methods.
Therefor do not use mailscanner."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mailing.postfix.users/WgnD8lU1jCI

That thread describes why Mailscanner is not supported. The TL;DR
version by Noel Jones is: "MailScanner does its work by grabbing files
out of the queue, runs its processing, and drops the resulting file back
into another postfix queue.  This is not a documented method to perform
content filtering in postfix."

So before you throw out DSPAM and move to Mailscanner & Postfix realize
that you will get zero support from the Postfix Community if you have
problems. If you really want to use Mailscanner then use it with Qmail.
If you want to use Postfix then use an anti-spam solution that is supported.

HTH,
Patrick

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Harry Duncan
On 7/11/14, Patrick Laimbock <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So before you throw out DSPAM and move to Mailscanner & Postfix realize
> that you will get zero support from the Postfix Community if you have
> problems. If you really want to use Mailscanner then use it with Qmail.
> If you want to use Postfix then use an anti-spam solution that is
> supported.

Horses for courses. I recommend Mailscanner solely based on the
success I see it delivering for local large ISP's. If you think that
you can throw out dspam and replace it with mailscanner, then you
misunderstand the function of mailscanner, it doesn't work that way.

HTH

Harry.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Dspam-user] Leaving dspam project

Eric Shubert
In reply to this post by ML mail
On 07/11/2014 01:03 AM, ML mail wrote:
> spamdyke was clearly developed for all the lack of qmail and as you say Erwan, it is useless for postfix which already implements all these features nicely.
>

Is that with or without mailscanner?

I'd like to know more about how to implement spamdyke features
(especially rDNS related functionality) with postfix. Can you point me
in the right direction?

Thanks.


--
-Eric 'shubes'


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Dspam-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dspam-user
12